How to Create a Men’s Group

[00:00:00]  Dan Berger: Welcome to the Assemble podcast. I’m Don Berger, founder of Assemble Hospitality Group. We build purpose design spaces for small team offsites and retreats because the biggest things happen in the smallest rooms. This show is about retreats in all forms, corporate lifestyle, wellness, and even family reunions, and the culture shifts that happen when people step away from the everyday.

[00:00:24] You’ll hear lessons from operators, facilitators, and leaders who know how to design experiences that move the needle. My goal give you the playbook for building clarity, trust, and belonging on your team or in your community.

[00:00:40] Alright, welcome back to the pod. Tony, Kris, welcome.

[00:00:43] Kris Derentz: Thanks for having me. Thanks for having us.

[00:00:45]  Dan Berger: Tony is the founder and CEO of Hawk Media, which is one of the largest, if not the largest boutique agencies in the United States. And Kris Derentz is the founder and CEO of Equipped md, which does medical equipment rental.

[00:01:00] This is a little different than my usual pod because they’re not necessarily facilitators, but they are the co-chairs of a men’s group that I started, gosh, five years ago, called Fellows at Fire Pits. So. We’re gonna, how to start a men’s group and what it takes to make it successful. So Tony, I wanna start with you and could you describe what Fellows and fire pits is?

[00:01:20] And we’ll call it f and F for short going forward, but why don’t we kick it off with you?

[00:01:24] Tony Delmercado: Yeah, the short version that I describe it to my folks outside of FF. Is that it’s a place for men, which I appreciate, frankly, to have authenticity and connection and talk about everything from being a partner or a spouse, to running a business, to raising kids, to navigating health and everything in between.

[00:01:48] And I’m really grateful that I’ve been able to meet such rad people, and also I have leaned hard into the authenticity and vulnerability. And that’s been useful for me in a lot of ways.

[00:02:01]  Dan Berger: Awesome. And Kris, you’re in charge of membership and I wanna talk a little bit about what you look for in members.

[00:02:07] And then I’ll talk about how we don’t let people in. But why don’t you talk about how we let people in?

[00:02:12] Kris Derentz: Yeah. So when we’re, ideally when we’re looking for members, we’re looking for people that are gonna be number one participating because participation is key to having the group be successful. ’cause without it, it’s just a bunch of names on a list.

[00:02:25] And then the second thing is finding a good fit. Just like with company culture, you wanna make sure that the member’s gonna mesh well with the rest of the members. So I think in that aspect, we look to see that. Not only are they gonna participate, but they’re also gonna be a good fit with the rest of the group.

[00:02:42] I think those are probably the key primary two.

[00:02:44]  Dan Berger: And Tony, for you, what does participation look like? How does somebody show up and you think, okay, they’re authentic, they’re like a good fit, as Kris said.

[00:02:52] Tony Delmercado: Yeah. So having that vulnerability, having that authenticity being real. Right. Especially as adult humans, I have a very low tolerance for just like triviality and bs, and I enjoy when people show up and have.

[00:03:07] Candid feedback for me. Great life experience, life share kind of things. And we also have a pretty, I think, robust group chat that I like to see people pop into where we discuss, you know, everything from new product innovations to what’s going on in AI to what we’re doing that weekend in terms of getting out and about.

[00:03:26] And so I think people can show up in a lot of ways, including virtually, but in person is always nice to hang out.

[00:03:34]  Dan Berger: And Kris, I know for us, and by the way, for listeners, we just, the way, you know, I pitch it as a platform for men’s relationships and one of the things that the platform offers is the ability to have offshoots from the community.

[00:03:46] So we have a, a spiritual book club, we have a doing things group where people can go and kind of say, Hey, I am gonna do this, so we wants to join me. I think we have a goal setting group. How, when we keep each other accountable. Kris, what role do icebreakers or as we call ’em, heart warmers play in our meetings?

[00:04:04] And can you give us an example of, uh, something that’s been effective?

[00:04:08] Kris Derentz: Yeah, I mean, the icebreakers, because. We do not necessarily always meet as the full group all that often except for once a month. That’s a good way for people that are not normally hanging out with each other in a large group setting to kind of open up and discuss stuff that they may not talk about normally, just in a regular group setting, our icebreakers have always been things that have caught, or basically to cause the member to think about something a little bit deeper and maybe even be a little bit more vulnerable about what they’re discussing or share experiences that.

[00:04:40] They may close to the chest, but especially in a group setting that they then are kind of a little bit forced to open up to everybody about. So I think that’s what it’s primarily for and it’s shown good success and getting everybody to kind of get to know each other just a little bit deeper.

[00:04:59]  Dan Berger: So one of the ones that comes up for me is if you were a fly on the wall, which conversation you listened to.

[00:05:06] Tony, can you think of another good one that we’ve had?

[00:05:09] Tony Delmercado: Yeah, I mean, we’ve, we’ve tapped into, you know, where are you, you know, most proud in the last 12 months, where have you seen the greatest opportunity for improvement? You know, describe a time when you really felt tuned into your family or your business, or your this or that.

[00:05:25] You’re always pretty deep. And I do like, as a, as a point of reference. I think we got in the habit a bit ago of making them known ahead. Right? We usually get together about six o’clock at night, eat some food, maybe have a beer for those that drink, those that don’t, whatever. But letting people know a couple hours ahead of time and I find that useful to go, Hmm, alright then you’re, you’re really thinking about it as opposed to like an icebreaker at a conference or something where you’re hearing about it for the first time.

[00:05:49] There. It’s, it’s not as in depth because of the fact that it’s just right there. So being able to give people a little bit of notice and kind of tap into that I think is useful.

[00:05:59]  Dan Berger: So let’s just dive in a little deeper into the agenda. Can you walk us through what a good agenda for this kind of meeting looks like?

[00:06:06] And then we’ll jump over to criteria and membership.

[00:06:09] Tony Delmercado: Yeah. So. Heart warmer, right? I don’t have it pulled up in front of me. So I feel like you’re putting me on the spot a little bit. But we tend to eat right. Have some food put together. Yeah.

[00:06:17]  Dan Berger: And we start with food.

[00:06:19] Tony Delmercado: We start with food. We used to do it later and it was a little clunky.

[00:06:22] Right?

[00:06:23]  Dan Berger: Right.

[00:06:23] Tony Delmercado: So I think the idea of starting with food, people gather that way. The scraggs show up, grab a bite, whatever, and then everyone’s there as opposed to trying to start at a specific time. We’re waiting 10, 15 minutes. People have lives, people get busy, obviously. It’s a group of people that mostly run businesses and have families and you know, stuff happens.

[00:06:41] So I think having food first and then kind of people filter in heart warmer. We do intros really quick. Like you, your partner, your business, if you have kids, what are you into super quick. Then we do heart warmer rather. And then generally there’s some topic of discussion that we break out for. Right? So smaller groups.

[00:07:02] So there’s. I’ll use round numbers ’cause it’s easier if there’s 18 people there. We might split into six groups of three or three groups of six or whatever, depending on the day. Try and keep those groups three to five, I think usually go discuss whatever the prompt was, come back. We do needs and leads, which I like a lot.

[00:07:20] You know, the, the running joke for a couple years was I, I needed some support in finance and accounting and that was the same, same need every time. People have great leads. Hey, I know this person looking for work, or I’ve got this cool new tech that I’ve found, or this cool opportunity. And then there’s a Japanese word for it that dunk had brought up that I’m not gonna be able to place.

[00:07:39] But it basically says you, you don’t have to leave, but you’re welcome to. And then that’s how things generally close out.

[00:07:46]  Dan Berger: I’ve had to kick people outta my house at like nine. I’m like, okay guys, this is enough for this. So speaking of kicking out Kris, what are criteria for being kicked out?

[00:07:55] Kris Derentz: Traditionally, for the most part, we’ve been fairly lenient, I would say.

[00:07:59] Tony Delmercado: I’m glad you put that one on Kris, by the way. Thank you.

[00:08:01] Kris Derentz: Yeah. I love how that one exactly.

[00:08:07] We’ve been pretty lenient about it. Usually it comes down to participation is I think the number one, one driver of why people end up getting either asked to leave or forced out.

[00:08:20] Members will join with the cover that they are there to participate and get to know people on a deeper level. But really underlying they have, they’re just there to try to promote their business or promote something that they’re trying to do. And so that often creates a bad taste in the mouth, both for the rest of the members.

[00:08:38] And I think that shows a character flaw. And so oftentimes we, you know, you don’t want those people in there because if that’s what the group becomes all about, it loses its, its meaning. So I think those are primarily too many reasons people get asked to leave.

[00:08:53]  Dan Berger: So to summarize, solicitation is maybe a reason to leave getting a bit outta control, whether it’s wasted or whatever.

[00:08:59] People have been asked to leave because of that not showing up. Yeah.

[00:09:06] Kris Derentz: Guidance for my time.

[00:09:08]  Dan Berger: And then we have, you have to show up once a quarter. Mm-hmm. And then just like a vibe kind of thing, right? It’s like a vibe check. Like it doesn’t seem like you are really into this, or like we do check-ins on, on with those people. Tony, talk to us about the events that we do. You know, we have a regular meeting and some other stuff.

[00:09:27] So talk to us about when meetings happen. How long are they, where do they take place?

[00:09:34] Tony Delmercado: Yeah, so once a month we get together. I’ve hosted a number of, I think tomorrow we’re going to Brad’s. Which is great. Another local founder, rad guy, so we hosted people’s homes. Originally it was called Founders and Fire Pits.

[00:09:46] Now Fellows and Fire Pits. Fire Pit is part of the deal. Like I, I do like the fact that we stand around a fire, I think it’s kind of Cave Manny and I’m into it. So that is like the, the hosting cadence is once a month. We also, we just had a holiday party at Assemble. Right. Get together. We do like a spouses, partners, SOS kind of an event.

[00:10:08] That was one of those. And then there are, as you pointed out, some subgroups. There’s a running group, right? There’s people that get together. The doing stuff group is, you know, I’m always out and about at shows or events or things like that here in town and tend to informally meet in those places as well.

[00:10:25] And I run into dudes that are part of the group now that have been part of the group in the past. Potentially could be part of the group in the future on a pretty regular basis, out and about. But once a month is, I think, what you’re driving at and it’s at somebody’s home and we stand around a fire and I like that

[00:10:40]  Dan Berger: in about three hours.

[00:10:41] You know, that’s been kind of the number. And we’ve had boomerangs, right? We’ve had people leave and then come back, and that’s worked well. And I think we’ve had really good retention rates too. And some good NPS scores. So Kris, you’ve been a member for a long time. Walk us through what’s the ideal number of the group and why you or we have found this a good number.

[00:11:01] Kris Derentz: I mean, I don’t know if we’ve actually ever settled this, to be honest. Like, so I think the truth is that think we

[00:11:07]  Dan Berger: and that’s the right answer.

[00:11:08] Kris Derentz: Yeah. And so I think the, an I think are, we, we’re sitting around 40 ish members, you know, correctly. We’re at 24. We’re at 24. Okay. Well, I thought, or was the goal around 40?

[00:11:20]  Dan Berger: I told you Kris is the guy who lets people in and I’m the guy who kicks people out.

[00:11:24] Kris Derentz: Yeah,

[00:11:24] Tony Delmercado: we have, we have a higher participation as a percentage of total today, which is good. Right. But I think we were always targeting like if half the people show up and that’s 15 to 20. That’s a good ballpark.

[00:11:36] Kris Derentz: Okay.

[00:11:37] Yeah, I think that was right, like because 15 to 20, so

[00:11:40]  Dan Berger: Right.

[00:11:40] Kris Derentz: We’re figuring on average 50% participation rate per month in, which would put us at 15 to 20 showing up. So 30 to 40 for the group size. But I don’t think there’s, I don’t think we really have enough true data behind that, but, but what, even with what we’re seeing at 10 people showing up, you know, on average 10 to 15.

[00:12:00] I think that’s a good group size. ’cause sometimes when it gets too large, it becomes too much. And even right now at 10 to 15, I would say, even for myself, I don’t even feel like I get a chance to go around and talk to everybody at each meeting. So, you know, sometimes the too large can become more troublesome for building relationships and then start getting to be a little bit more cliquey.

[00:12:22] Or like people just sticking with the same group of individuals that they always talk to.

[00:12:27]  Dan Berger: Totally agree with you. I, I call a, I mean, for me, what I’ve found. Like a good signal is that everybody in the group passes the airport test. Can I be stuck in an airport with this individual, you know, during a delayed flight?

[00:12:39] And I can tell you very directly and very honestly, that there’s not a single person that I would not mind being stuck within an airport. I can have a conversation with anybody for prolonged period of time, which for me is a great indicator that we’ve done a really good job in calling the membership.

[00:12:54] And that brings me to this topic of conscious exclusivity. And the idea is that if everybody belongs, nobody belongs. And I’m just wondering if, if, Tony, do you have a comment on that? How have you found conscious exclusivity to serve the group?

[00:13:09] Tony Delmercado: Yeah, I think it’s really important. I mean, without hubris, right?

[00:13:14] We are a group of people that are doing cool stuff in the world. I think on balance, right? People are. Not just professionally, but also personally and have aspirations and have a, a way of moving to the world that maintaining alignment around those things is really great for, again, quite selfishly, I want to be aligned with people that are conscious, proactive, you know, positive living, gratitude, et cetera.

[00:13:40] So filtering for that. I don’t give a shit where you’re from or what you do for a living, but. I wanna surround myself with people that are doing interesting things and thinking about the world in interesting ways, and that I think filtering for that is absolutely important.

[00:13:56]  Dan Berger: A quick pause to thank our sponsor, facilitator directory.com.

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[00:14:12] Kris Derentz: top rated facilitators, guides, and team coaches. Now back to the show.

[00:14:18]  Dan Berger: So Kris, I wanna move towards discussing why do men need a space like this? And I’ll preface by saying that I believe men need a space like this because I believe that men are feeling more and more ostracized in society. There’s a great show on Netflix called Alpha Males where it talks about this kind of dis deconstructed masculinity.

[00:14:39] But without putting words in your mouth, why do you think men need a space like this? And. Obviously it’s worked. So

[00:14:46] Kris Derentz: yeah, so just back up. I’ll say why I was looking for something like this in the first place. Originally I was new to town and wanted to have other male friends. I live in a house full of females, uh, with a daughter and a wife, and having someone that I could share interest with or, you know, and have a group of friends to be able to do things with.

[00:15:09] Especially as you get older in age, you know, like I’m, I’m 46. It’s hard to make friends when you get older. So finding that connection just to begin with as you get older, because everybody is so set up in their ways of like their lifestyle, whether it it’s family or your job or other things.

[00:15:28] Traditionally, those come first. So finding a group like this helps you set aside some time to make it a focus in your life and create those connections that you might not otherwise have created. So that’s my primary reason and I, I think it’s been very successful in doing that. And I think more men should have those type of connections.

[00:15:47] ’cause I think a lot of people lose connections as they age, especially in their professional life because that other stuff just is constantly taking priority, which it should because, you know, your family and your your business are both very important things. But it’s also important to set aside time for yourself to, you know, build other relationships and have friends that you can bond with as well.

[00:16:09]  Dan Berger: Yeah, you mentioned something really important about, you know, bringing together a lot of people that are new to town, and I think we observed that like 80% of the people that were in the group were like in Boise for less than 10 years, and there were very few native Idahoans. Tony, same question. Why do men need spaces like this?

[00:16:26] Tony Delmercado: Yeah, I think the structure. For the same reason that I go to the gym I go to is because I don’t have to think about it. I show up and we roll and we stretch and we grind for 40 minutes and then I’m done. Now it requires absolutely no mind share. The same thing is true for the structure of f and f, which is we show up, there’s, you know, an agenda or a framework and we all connect.

[00:16:48] It’s, it’s sort of a done for you way to pretty simply and easily. Build on these relationships and kind of find the creep, the folks that you get along with. And so I think a, that’s really important, right? Especially busy men having a framework, having a structure, having something that you just, 99% of life is just showing up, right?

[00:17:06] So you just show up and then kind of baked in. And I also think, I mean, you might’ve referred me to this book, but it was, it was about how bowling leagues have gone away and how, you know, dark clubs and billiard clubs and you know, used to get together. You’d have social groups for men,

[00:17:22]  Dan Berger: Robert Putnam’s, bowling alone.

[00:17:24] Tony Delmercado: That’s it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think there’s an absence of that right? Outside of sport or gym, which I think sport’s useful for a lot of reasons as well, because you have a team, all those kinds of things. But if you’re not in a team sport, even, you know, going fishing with somebody or going skiing. We live in a very outdoor oriented culture, but you’re not doing that 15 guys at a time usually.

[00:17:47] Right? So being able to connect. And have that structure there is super important. That’s how I think it fits into, uh, for me.

[00:17:54]  Dan Berger: Cool. Yeah. You know, when I first came into town five years ago, I didn’t know a soul, but I was meeting all these really cool people and I thought to myself, what have all these people got together in my backyard and met each other?

[00:18:04] And I’ve always enjoyed seeing the magic of connecting people that I know. I mean, that’s why I started it. But I, my question to both of you and, and Kris, maybe we’ll start with you first. What are some advice you have for people who are thinking about starting a men’s group like this? And wanting to see it as a part of their lives.

[00:18:22] Kris Derentz: I mean, they should just go out and do it first and foremost. ’cause I think you’re, if you’re waiting for somebody else to do it, it probably won’t happen. And I was lucky enough to be invited into this group and find one that was already started, but nine times outta 10, that’s not gonna be the case. So if you’re interested in doing it and you wanna set up something in your area, then I highly recommend doing it.

[00:18:43] Then. I think it’ll be more rewarding than you expect too. And then I think the other thing is. I think we’ve built a good template here of things to follow by, like with structure and finding people of similar value with similar values and GR and stuff. And, and when I say values, it doesn’t even mean like politics or stuff like that because that’s actually something that we often debate internally if we basically keep politics out of this group because we think it’s a more of a dividing thing, whereas we try to find stuff that is more uniting topic wise, we can all get around.

[00:19:16] So. Kind of went off track a little bit there, but

[00:19:19]  Dan Berger: No, that’s perfect. And I think the rules are in the WhatsApp group is no politics, sports, or memes. Sports very rarely. But that seemed to have worked well for us. Tony, what’s some advice you have for somebody that wants to start a men’s group? And now, by the way, I’ll just share that if anybody wants our framework, we have, we’ve crowdsourced the entire presentation of behind FNF, which includes the history.

[00:19:42] So Matt’s available to anybody who wants that. But Tony, what’s some advice you have for somebody who wants to start a group like this?

[00:19:48] Tony Delmercado: I think there’s a couple things that stick out to me. One is like the look book for new members. Right? Here’s a picture of this person and what they do and where they’re from and like it’s nice to be at least loosely acquainted before you show up for the first time.

[00:20:00] That can be a little bit intimidating, right? I remember the first time I walked into a meeting and there’s a bunch people, and I don’t know ’em, but I, I did actually like look at who was in the group and had had a few thoughts or questions or anecdotes or ideas, which is useful. I also think like.

[00:20:17] Potentially a lower barrier to entry, a higher barrier to retention is a good way to formulate a group in general. I’m a big fan of the like just getting folks together and then letting the group sort of collectively form its identity and see where it orients is, especially for an upstart, right, where the identity and the culture isn’t necessarily articulated or felt as much.

[00:20:38] Having a lower barrier to entry and then figuring out, okay, this is what we like, this is what we don’t like. This is what we want more of. This is what we wanna potentially steer away from. I felt a few different, I couldn’t, you know, put a pin on, on a calendar for when we did that as a group. But I think there’s been a few iterations and some evolution as the group has gone on.

[00:20:57] So the magic I think is just getting people in a room or in a backyard or whatever it’s right. Getting, getting folks together. Start there and then kind of let that group define what it looks like, you know, the next month or the following.

[00:21:11]  Dan Berger: And that moves me to the topic of leadership. Kris, you’ve decided you’ve stepped up to be.

[00:21:16] The leadership team. Team, what have you found works with our leadership team and what are some best practices that you can share?

[00:21:24] Kris Derentz: I think the big thing, especially that I struggle with and you guys have helped me with is keeping me accountable. But having leadership team work constantly keep each other accountable is very important, especially because we are all busy in, in our individual lifestyles.

[00:21:40] So that’s been a big thing for me is. You guys nudge me when I’m not around or kind of slip in a little bit. So it’s good to be like, have that reminders. The other thing I think is important is sending monthly meetings for the leadership team as well to kind of constantly dig into what’s working, what’s not working, and come up with constant like little tweaks and revisions to be able to help improve things.

[00:22:05] So we’ve done a lot of that over the last two years that I’ve been part of this on the leadership side. The other thing is also constantly as a leadership team, constantly listening to the membership too. Because you can get a lot of feedback from the membership on what they think is working and well working, because what the three of us may think is good, may not necessarily be the overall opinion of the group.

[00:22:28] So I think those are all important things to do. Taking into account,

[00:22:32]  Dan Berger: you know, one contrarian view I’ve found works with our leadership team is that we do everything. There’s not like, yeah, sure. You’re the charge of membership and Tony’s in charge of engagement. I actually don’t even know what Tony’s in charge of.

[00:22:41] And we just kind of all do, we all, you know, put in work and, and part of the leadership team I’ve found is just like a, a council, like, just to kind of discuss stuff. Tony, do you agree with that? It’s ’cause it’s a bit contrarian.

[00:22:53] Tony Delmercado: Yeah, I do, and I actually, it’s not philanthropy per se because I’m very much at the benefit of, of what happens in this group, but I do think everyone should serve as it were, and be of service to the collective as it were.

[00:23:11] Right. Not to get too hippie dippy, but I certainly have experienced. Tremendous benefit from being around these folks and when asked to step up in whatever way that it is, I step up that none of us can really articulate. I’m super, I’m super happy to do so because it benefits me and it benefits the group and I’ve received a tremendous amount of value from the group.

[00:23:32] And so being able to serve and then I, I think Kris makes a great point too about. Listening to the, the membership. Hey, what, what is this for you? What do you want this to be? How can we make it more of what you want and less of what you don’t? We don’t get a lot of detractors per se, but fostering engagement and those kinds of things.

[00:23:51] Ultimately, I think if you’re in any leadership position, business or social fostering engagement is probably the the chief role. Right.

[00:23:59]  Dan Berger: And I would add to that just a sense of belonging. You know, one of the things we test on an annual basis is how much do you feel like you belong to the group? And it’s generally like.

[00:24:06] Eight or nine out of 10, which is something that I take great pride in. As we’re kind of coming around the bend and we’re looking to wrap up, are there any questions I should ask that I haven’t asked or anything else you wanna mention about f and f or men’s group in general?

[00:24:20] Tony Delmercado: I think you’re probably potentially too humble to speak to this, but I think the reason the group exists is because you were forceful about it early on.

[00:24:29] I do think that even if you’ve got a committee like Kris and I, there needs to be someone who’s. Passion and enthusiastic about building something. And in the absence of Don Berger, I wouldn’t have met 50 people that I know now. Right. So I think it does require that somebody’s passionately enthusiastic about building something and also because of your professional and personal life, you’re out and about your beating cool people all the time.

[00:24:51] Right. So I think that a group needs that.

[00:24:54]  Dan Berger: Thank you for saying that. I think for me it’s for, first of all, it’s selfish, but also the other piece of it is because I love to see the magic that happens when we come together. But for me. I have found that the leader has to be super engaged. Like if I wasn’t active on WhatsApp or I wasn’t like pushing people like to rsvp.

[00:25:12] Yeah. And like it, it wouldn’t get done

[00:25:14] Tony Delmercado: disproportionately. So. Yeah, right. Disproportionately so. Yeah,

[00:25:17]  Dan Berger: and we haven’t even talked about the tools we use ’cause we’ve struggled with collecting money and all that, but that’s boring stuff. But, sorry Kris, go ahead. You were gonna add something?

[00:25:24] Kris Derentz: No, I was just gonna say I agree with Tony and then, you know, like one of the questions you asked earlier was about getting started and one of the things like we should be transparent about is that.

[00:25:34] Initially when you got this started, there’s a lot of pushing on your, that was just you that was doing it and, and pulling it along to get, so it started actually getting momentum. So whoever, if someone’s starting in your group, they should expect that there’s gonna be a little bit of legwork initially to get until you can get some momentum and the group to really take off.

[00:25:53] But you’ve obviously found it rewarding enough to keep doing it and you’re still here pushing it to this day. So I think that’s something to really take into account and. I think we all really appreciate you doing that, for us to be able to have the, have the group to be able to participate into.

[00:26:11] Tony Delmercado: And Don, I wanna clarify one thing that you said a second ago as well, which is like, no disrespect to, uh, you know, professional organizations like YPO and Vistage and Chambers, and there’s obviously a number of them.

[00:26:22] Now. You mentioned collecting money. We’re talking about the logistics of paying for tacos or pasta or whatever, right? We don’t, don’t actually charge.

[00:26:29]  Dan Berger: We don’t charge like 10 grand a year like these other,

[00:26:32] Tony Delmercado: yeah, we don’t charge a membership fee, which I think, again, when you talk about like barrier to entry, I think that’s been really important for us.

[00:26:39] Right. If there was a cost consideration to this, I don’t know that I would’ve been as like eager or participative early. I would probably pay for it now. Right. To be honest. But I don’t think that having a pay to join a community is as. Effective, certainly early on as you’re establishing what it’s about.

[00:26:58]  Dan Berger: Right. Because it’s not a job for us, like you mentioned. It is. It is service. You know, it reminds me of a quick story and then we’ll wrap up. There was a guy in the group who notably did not like me. He literally told me he didn’t like me, and I texted him. I sent him a text. I was like, listen, if you don’t like me, why are you part of the group that I started?

[00:27:13] And he said, well, the other relationships there are valuable to me. And my pride and ego got in the way and I said, well, you know what? You don’t belong in this group if you don’t like the leader. And oh look, I’m sure there’s some people who don’t necessarily like me in the group, but at least they’re not vocal about it.

[00:27:26] So anyway, he is no longer part of the group. And I think that brings you back to just selective people who are. Who’s gonna be part of f and f? They’re doing, they’re, they’re selecting and we have to select because belonging is a two-way street. If I think you don’t belong, you don’t belong. And if you don’t think you belong, you don’t belong.

[00:27:43] So we both have to have that positive feedback loop of belonging. Well, gentlemen, I want to thank you for your time. This has been an awesome conversation and I really hope it inspires people to start their own group.

[00:27:54] Kris Derentz: Yeah. Thanks for having us.